First BEV experience confirms Scout BEV is a hard no for me

[colinnwn]

So I drove my first BEV this weekend. I went to Bradenton Florida to help a friend in a health crisis. It was the cheapest though still very expensive rental available due to spring break. I got a Mercedes EQB 300. I'm glad I did this to know what I like and what I hate. Renting a BEV is a one time thing if I can avoid it in the future.

First the physical act of driving I really liked it. It was fast and smooth and I was quickly getting used to 1 pedal driving. I loved how you could sit in an almost silent car with the HVAC running. Though I didn't like but didn't have time to figure out how to turn off the auto transmission creep mode.

Mercedes software and UI is absolutely unrepentant hot streaming dog crap. That's a whole separate long post not relevant to Scout.

But the charging experience is relevant to considering a BEV Scout, and just in general what to expect the first time you have to charge. When I searched for fast chargers on PlugShare the closest one was 13 minutes away from their house. The next one was 20 minutes. There are several gas stations 5 minutes away. I didn't trust that I wouldn't run out of time no matter how early I left for the airport so I did a separate 6am trip to charge even though it was on the way.

The Evolution charger forced me to sign up for an account, which is ok but sorta silly when it has a full display and could easily accept tap and pay. But maddingly it required email link validation. The first time I tried the email never came. So I had to sign up again with a different email service and this time I got the email. This was all happening in an unlit parking lot of an older strip mall with nothing open.

Having never used a charger there was no sign to press the button to release the handle from the charger. I struggled with it for a few minutes pretty aggressively until I felt around to the little black rubber button that was totally invisible. The cords were very heavy and stiff moreso than a gas hose. It takes some effort to insert it just right.

The app goes through a multi step process to talk to the charger and start the charge. The first two chargers would fail on the final step saying connet the charger to the car. I couldn't tell if I was doing something wrong or the whole charger set was broken or the Mercedes is picky. I was getting concerned I needed to move on but I decided to try the last two since I was getting more comfortable doing it quickly. Finally the 3rd charger workedish.

I didn't think to see how fast the Mercedes can charge but it's only 100 kwh, despite the 240 kwh capable charger I went to. However on a 19% to 80% charge, the charger was never able to get above 87 kwh for a short time and averaged a lackluster 44 kwh for a 44 minute charge. When I figured out it would take a while the closest open food place was a McD that I had to walk 10 minutes to along a busy road sidewalk.

The whole experience was moderately unpleasant when I was trying to help focus on my friend. I can't imagine dealing with this out in West Texas towing my RV.

 

[SkipW]

So I drove my first BEV this weekend. I went to Bradenton Florida to help a friend in a health crisis. It was the cheapest though still very expensive rental available due to spring break. I got a Mercedes EQB 300. I'm glad I did this to know what I like and what I hate. Renting a BEV is a one time thing if I can avoid it in the future.

First the physical act of driving I really liked it. It was fast and smooth and I was quickly getting used to 1 pedal driving. I loved how you could sit in an almost silent car with the HVAC running. Though I didn't like but didn't have time to figure out how to turn off the auto transmission creep mode.

Mercedes software and UI is absolutely unrepentant hot streaming dog crap. That's a whole separate long post not relevant to Scout.

But the charging experience is relevant to considering a BEV Scout, and just in general what to expect the first time you have to charge. When I searched for fast chargers on PlugShare the closest one was 13 minutes away from their house. The next one was 20 minutes. There are several gas stations 5 minutes away. I didn't trust that I wouldn't run out of time no matter how early I left for the airport so I did a separate 6am trip to charge even though it was on the way.

The Evolution charger forced me to sign up for an account, which is ok but sorta silly when it has a full display and could easily accept tap and pay. But maddingly it required email link validation. The first time I tried the email never came. So I had to sign up again with a different email service and this time I got the email. This was all happening in an unlit parking lot of an older strip mall with nothing open.

Having never used a charger there was no sign to press the button to release the handle from the charger. I struggled with it for a few minutes pretty aggressively until I felt around to the little black rubber button that was totally invisible. The cords were very heavy and stiff moreso than a gas hose. It takes some effort to insert it just right.

The app goes through a multi step process to talk to the charger and start the charge. The first two chargers would fail on the final step saying connet the charger to the car. I couldn't tell if I was doing something wrong or the whole charger set was broken or the Mercedes is picky. I was getting concerned I needed to move on but I decided to try the last two since I was getting more comfortable doing it quickly. Finally the 3rd charger workedish.

I didn't think to see how fast the Mercedes can charge but it's only 100 kwh, despite the 240 kwh capable charger I went to. However on a 19% to 80% charge, the charger was never able to get above 87 kwh for a short time and averaged a lackluster 44 kwh for a 44 minute charge. When I figured out it would take a while the closest open food place was a McD that I had to walk 10 minutes to along a busy road sidewalk.

The whole experience was moderately unpleasant when I was trying to help focus on my friend. I can't imagine dealing with this out in West Texas towing my RV.

Having owned a BEV for about a year I feel your pain. All maiden voyages are disconcerting as you don’t know what to expect. Good for you for jumping into the deep end for the BEV. Overall you seemed to be a pretty good sport about it all now. Our first experience with a BEV was about the same but it way easier as you gain experience and knowledge. We will never be without one going forward as it is truly the wave of the future. We will have an ICE too, as there is something about the sound of the engine and the smell of fuel on occasion

 

[joewilk45]

Tesla and charge point EvGo seem to be in amenity areas. Cadillac has an app where you load your credit card and all the charging stations are connected through and paid through one app very nice and makes charging on the go much easier

 

[VolInGa]

So I drove my first BEV this weekend. I went to Bradenton Florida to help a friend in a health crisis. It was the cheapest though still very expensive rental available due to spring break. I got a Mercedes EQB 300. I'm glad I did this to know what I like and what I hate. Renting a BEV is a one time thing if I can avoid it in the future.

First the physical act of driving I really liked it. It was fast and smooth and I was quickly getting used to 1 pedal driving. I loved how you could sit in an almost silent car with the HVAC running. Though I didn't like but didn't have time to figure out how to turn off the auto transmission creep mode.

Mercedes software and UI is absolutely unrepentant hot streaming dog crap. That's a whole separate long post not relevant to Scout.

But the charging experience is relevant to considering a BEV Scout, and just in general what to expect the first time you have to charge. When I searched for fast chargers on PlugShare the closest one was 13 minutes away from their house. The next one was 20 minutes. There are several gas stations 5 minutes away. I didn't trust that I wouldn't run out of time no matter how early I left for the airport so I did a separate 6am trip to charge even though it was on the way.

The Evolution charger forced me to sign up for an account, which is ok but sorta silly when it has a full display and could easily accept tap and pay. But maddingly it required email link validation. The first time I tried the email never came. So I had to sign up again with a different email service and this time I got the email. This was all happening in an unlit parking lot of an older strip mall with nothing open.

Having never used a charger there was no sign to press the button to release the handle from the charger. I struggled with it for a few minutes pretty aggressively until I felt around to the little black rubber button that was totally invisible. The cords were very heavy and stiff moreso than a gas hose. It takes some effort to insert it just right.

The app goes through a multi step process to talk to the charger and start the charge. The first two chargers would fail on the final step saying connet the charger to the car. I couldn't tell if I was doing something wrong or the whole charger set was broken or the Mercedes is picky. I was getting concerned I needed to move on but I decided to try the last two since I was getting more comfortable doing it quickly. Finally the 3rd charger workedish.

I didn't think to see how fast the Mercedes can charge but it's only 100 kwh, despite the 240 kwh capable charger I went to. However on a 19% to 80% charge, the charger was never able to get above 87 kwh for a short time and averaged a lackluster 44 kwh for a 44 minute charge. When I figured out it would take a while the closest open food place was a McD that I had to walk 10 minutes to along a busy road sidewalk.

The whole experience was moderately unpleasant when I was trying to help focus on my friend. I can't imagine dealing with this out in West Texas towing my RV.

I wouldn’t base your BEV plans on a single rental experience. It can be a pain on long trips, the planning and extra time, but for day to day use, they are fantastic if you charge at home. In nearly three years I’ve used public charging less than 20 times and most of that was on a 1200 mile trip.

 

[colinnwn]

I absolutely would buy an EV Bolt today for work commuting if I had enough space and money to have a weekday car and a weekend car. My wife and I seriously considered buying her one until she decided she was happy enough with her old CR-V and the savings wouldn't cover the payment difference at the time (now paid off).

Unfortunately we take several long road trips with an RV each year. If I'm going to buy a near $70k truck it has to meet 100% of my use cases, not 90%.

It sounds like the Harvester will get me what I liked about the BEV, and avoid what I found annoying.

I have no doubt EVs are the future and 10 years from now the infrastructure will be better especially far out rural where we camp. Not to get political but this administration clearly doesn't agree with EVs or any support for them so that is slowing the transition down by a good 4 years minimum. But I was surprised how janky the experience was in a good sized city. I'll be ready when the infrastructure is there.

 

[HughW]

I'm of a similar mind with the OP.

My next car for local use (round-trips of under 300 miles or so) will be a pure EV, likely a Kia sedan or its Hyundai sibling. I look forward to it.

For my other vehicle needs, an EREV like the Scout is the only non pure-ICE answer. I need an SUV with serious off-road capability. I need to be able to drive it long distances, from LA to back country sites in remote areas of California, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah. Colorado. All the good places.

What I don't need is: worring about driving 75; running the air conditioner; running the heater; the distance to the next charging station; how long I'll have to wait for a charger; whether a high-speed charger will be available; vampire battery drain when I camp for three or four days in the middle of nowhere. Blah, blah.

So I'm pulling for the Scout EREV, or something similar--maybe a Bronco or 4Runner EREV or.... The Scout appears the closest to reality. I hope it happens.

 

[Flyinglow]

I absolutely would buy an EV Bolt today for work commuting if I had enough space and money to have a weekday car and a weekend car. My wife and I seriously considered buying her one until she decided she was happy enough with her old CR-V and the savings wouldn't cover the payment difference at the time (now paid off).

Unfortunately we take several long road trips with an RV each year. If I'm going to buy a near $70k truck it has to meet 100% of my use cases, not 90%.

It sounds like the Harvester will get me what I liked about the BEV, and avoid what I found annoying.

I have no doubt EVs are the future and 10 years from now the infrastructure will be better especially far out rural where we camp. Not to get political but this administration clearly doesn't agree with EVs or any support for them so that is slowing the transition down by a good 4 years minimum. But I was surprised how janky the experience was in a good sized city. I'll be ready when the infrastructure is there.

Road tripping a BEV is getting less and less challenging with the huge number of new high speed chargers going in. IONNA is expanding rapidly and Walmart is adding something like 10k this year alone. There are, however, dead zones still where you can only find slow chargers, even it CA which is a BEV hotbed.

Local driving, if you charge at home, is always going to favor a BEV. That range extender is going to take maintenance and add cost (speaking as a Volt owner, the original EREV) even when it is hardly used. In the meantime, you are trading off some payload, towing and usually loose the frunk storage. Scout keeps the frunk but seems like it will loose quite a bit of towing capacity.

 

[gfmstl]

It sucks there's a learning curve for using an EV the first time but there it is. It's also different if you've planned and researched. That doesn't apply as much to ICE vehicles but there are certainly gas stations I avoid because of noticeable penalties in my range per tank. I can say if you own a home your experience will be very different as you'll be charging there probably 99% of the time. We live off of 120v level 1 charging for our Equinox and do not need to fast charge. We need a panel upgrade before we can run 220 to the garage. I wouldn't recommend charging a truck off 120 if you're driving more than 20 miles a day on average. Though that math probably changes with the puny Harvester battery. I do mean to be denigrating about the battery size. It's the same capacity and range as a Nissan Leaf.

I don't think the Harvester will get you there, towing, either. Harvester models will have a 60 to 70 kw/h battery. Estimated range electric range is 120-150 miles so a mile/kwh of 2 to 2.15. I think the generator is supposed to kick in after you've gone about 50 miles or let's say 30% to 40% of the battery. Sticking a wall into the air behind the truck destroys the aerodynamics and the range.

Weight really doesn't mean anything for range of the battery unless you're consistently driving up hill where you're trading gravity for wind resistance. I'm guessing your RV is not a pop-up so you're pulling a wall with rounded corners behind you. It will cut ~67% of your range. So that takes the battery to 50 miles, the generator kicks in at 15 miles, and is probably going all out the entire time to give you a range, hopefully, of 185 miles. That 185 miles is really optimistic. Also what happens when you've run out of gas and still have range left? Do you fill up and let it charge the battery again which will reduce your range because you're starting depleted? Or do you need to charge and fill up which negates the time saving of the generator? Or are you filling up the gas tank before you run out so your range while towing is actually more like 150 to 160 miles?


The only thing that really matters for towing range is how much fuel/energy you can store. Aging Wheels did a great video about six months ago on towing range. It has math and everything. But TLDW is bigger battery/tank equals more range. So Harvester with with tiny battery and tiny tank is probably not going to be ideal.


I don't tow RVs. Probably never will. So my use case for a truck is something I can dump dirt and lumber into and go play with in the woods maybe. Ok probably. Ok almost certainly. I'm more the ideal use case for a BEV truck than anyone who wants to tow anything for range. Because weight doesn't matter.

I don't know how badly hooking your RV to your F150 reduces your range but I suspect it's significant. We just all get to ignore that because you're not doing it very often and snack shops with attached gas pumps are everywhere. Does suck that gas is going to $5.00 U.S. per gallon average in a month though.

I was interested in the Harvester when I thought it would tack on 150 miles of range. Now that it's the primary source of distance, it looks like a trap to me. It really does seem like Scout is combining the worst of both worlds. You're getting all the range of a Nissan Leaf and all the maintenance and environmental damage of owning an ICE vehicle without any of the real advantages of either.

My biggest concern is the Harvester models are going to get to the public and all the news will be about how the compromies necessary to create a vehicle that is BEV in drive but ICE in operation create an abomination that pleases no one.

I do apologize for you catching strays because of the things that are running circles in my head.

EREV's in general and Harvester in particular aren't bridge technologies. They're dead ends and they're dead ends that I'm afraid Scout/VW is going to run into at full speed and I won't be able to get the truck I wanted out of the wreckage.

 

[joewilk45]

Actually I think VW knows what lies ahead and I'm sure VW executives and BMW Executives share their visions with one another being they travel the same roads and drink from the same wells. The delay will allow VW to offer a Bev with 450 to 500 miles of range by 2029 CATL just applied for solid state battery patents and will be mass produced for EV use by end of 28 . I also think manufacturers are going to go to a battery pack standard as to sizes to allow predetermined openings be pre manufactured in vehicles to allow vehicles to be manufactured and battery installed later depending on clients desired size. This allows for easier maintenance as well as upgrades. Scout is going to see firsthand how BMW i3 EV sells with its 500 mile range and the Erev will already become obsolete

 

[joewilk45]