So they really need a 3 or 4 cylinder engine?

[Cloudsplitter]

Ever since getting excited about this car, and putting a deposit down, based on all of the features it purports to have, I can't help but wonder is the Harvester is really going to come off anything like it has been proposed. Do they have any test mules of it? Is a 3 or 4 cylinder engine really required? Or could it be just a one or two cylinder engine with some torque to power the generator? Where will the cooling be? How will the heat be dissipated from the engine sitting underneath floorboards? I'm assuming the test mule that they had on Jay Leno's youtube show was an all electric vehicle? I'd really appreciate some informed insight to know whether I should keep my hopes up, because I really like the vehicle proposed.

 

[vrgruver]

Give it two years and then it will be out. For now, research BMW i3 w/Extender. I really think it just needs to be full electric with big motors like a Lucid or Rivian. Expect 40-60% less range while towing in EV only. In EREV, don't expect the little motor to charge fast enough to supply the battery as it depletes rapidly. If towing a lot, you will just get a diesel. If you look at the biggest utility EREV like vehicle, a Dresser Haulpak 830E Dump truck with a 2500hp 16-cylinder, 60-liter Komatsu SDA16V160 or Cummins QSK60 Diesel generator for 4 electric motors (one at each wheel).

You have to be able to produce at least as much power as you will use with the electric system. The current anemic engine may not even generate enough energy to supply the electric system for the Scout going up a hill, let alone towing. If you run the engine the whole time, maybe it can work to keep the battery depleting slower, but at that point, why not just get a far cheaper dino-powered vehicle.

Biggest hang-up is folks trying to get one vehicle to do everything. That means you are compromising some for every purpose. Ideally get an electric micro car for city use. Get an old Jeep and deck it out for rock crawling, and get a diesel 3500 for towing. Yes this is a lot of vehicles, but one vehicle can't do all three well. If you are just dirt roading and towing a small popup camper, an SUV or small pickup may be your one does each well enough.

My fav design would be the ability to add an additional battery for more range when needed, but not tote it around every day on short trips. Honestly, 3 hours range on the highway is a good amount to charge and stretch the legs.

 

[Cloudsplitter]

I wonder if a small deisel to drive the generator, with all of its torque, would be the answer? The attraction for myself, and many based on the deposits, is not depending charging stations for longer trips. Either way, I hope they get it worked out.

 

[Dubmeister59]

Battery tech is advancing so fast, that by the time this vehicle would be ready to deliver to me, there will be full BEVs getting 700+ miles range that can charge in 20 min. They are building a dinosaur!

 

[Cloudsplitter]

I hope you're right, and the charge time is reasonable, say around ~10min so long distance trips aren't impacted.

 

[mcm4ss]

I would like to see a full EV with an optional portable Scout generator that can plug in and charge while driving extending the range for those extra long trips between chargers. Take it out when not needed. Ditch the built in thing. Win, win both ways. Make it look like the tool box, or put it where the spare tire goes. Make a " passthrough" like the Rivian has and put it there. So many options and when it is not needed storage!! A "cart" with a quick hookup sort of sliding shelf would make it so it would not even need to be lifted, just "slid" over. simple fix for a simple problem and gives a lot of options.

 

[colinnwn]

There are a lot of assumptions here that are contrary to all currently released information from Scout. They've said they are using a 4 cylinder naturally aspirated VW engine of approximately 2 liters and they have test mules of them, though the one Jay drove was electric only and really just an external design study, not a component level early example. The electric motor was underpowered and loud.

The EREV option has a substantially reduced battery capacity, to where the generator will need to be well powered to work. Scott has said the EREV towing experience will be a "no compromises" experience contrary to what is suggested here. Of course there are bounds to that statement. Initially he said that the EREV towing might be limited to 5k lbs. Subsequent internal work Jaime has talked about has shown one of the issues is heat generated by the EREV during the SAE J2807 Davis Mountain towing test that requires starting with a depleted battery is causing them issues, but they feel like there is a path to get better than their current 5k lbs max tow capacity estimate. This would require that the generator is NOT just a trickle charger and has significant output.

I would have loved if they considered some other engine options like one of the new rotary combustion, Liquid Piston, free piston designs, or more conventionally a horizontally opposed large 2 cylinder. But to derisk their launch date I understand why they didn't.

Being that this was VW funded, there was NO way they were going to consider a diesel generator. For many people's use case for an adventure vehicle likely to be used towing at least small travel trailers, there is NOT enough rural charging availablity to be comfortable with a BEV only. I had a unpleasant experience charging a Mercedes EV in Sarasota Florida. No way I'm going to buy a BEV vehicle that isn't a town/work commuter car. Making a portable generator of sufficient capacity to meet the requirements of the EREV design without limiting the battery size for expense and weight considerations means the generator would be extremely heavy and require a forklift to load into the back of the Terra. And on the Traveler it would be a total no-go due to weight hanging way off the back beyond the end of the vehicle unsupported.

Ideally if they were starting from scratch today, I would give up the Frunk for easy design of the EREV. However given that this was originally a full BEV design, and the EREV was a modular addition much later in the design, and that I don't want them to delay the launch due to a big redesign - I'm happy with what they propose, and I'm hopeful they will find reasonable compromises to some of the concerns raised here that I can live with at an affordable price. If the towing limit is 5k, I can live with that. I hope it's closer to 7k for the Terra, which was the BEV Traveler max tow they proposed anyway.

 

[mcm4ss]

There are a lot of assumptions here that are contrary to all currently released information from Scout. They've said they are using a 4 cylinder naturally aspirated VW engine of approximately 2 liters and they have test mules of them, though the one Jay drove was electric only and really just an external design study, not a component level early example. The electric motor was underpowered and loud.

The EREV option has a substantially reduced battery capacity, to where the generator will need to be well powered to work. Scott has said the EREV towing experience will be a "no compromises" experience contrary to what is suggested here. Of course there are bounds to that statement. Initially he said that the EREV towing might be limited to 5k lbs. Subsequent internal work Jaime has talked about has shown one of the issues is heat generated by the EREV during the SAE J2807 Davis Mountain towing test that requires starting with a depleted battery is causing them issues, but they feel like there is a path to get better than their current 5k lbs max tow capacity estimate. This would require that the generator is NOT just a trickle charger and has significant output.

I would have loved if they considered some other engine options like one of the new rotary combustion, Liquid Piston, free piston designs, or more conventionally a horizontally opposed large 2 cylinder. But to derisk their launch date I understand why they didn't.

Being that this was VW funded, there was NO way they were going to consider a diesel generator. For many people's use case for an adventure vehicle likely to be used towing at least small travel trailers, there is NOT enough rural charging availablity to be comfortable with a BEV only. I had a unpleasant experience charging a Mercedes EV in Sarasota Florida. No way I'm going to buy a BEV vehicle that isn't a town/work commuter car. Making a portable generator of sufficient capacity to meet the requirements of the EREV design without limiting the battery size for expense and weight considerations means the generator would be extremely heavy and require a forklift to load into the back of the Terra. And on the Traveler it would be a total no-go due to weight hanging way off the back beyond the end of the vehicle unsupported.

Ideally if they were starting from scratch today, I would give up the Frunk for easy design of the EREV. However given that this was originally a full BEV design, and the EREV was a modular addition much later in the design, and that I don't want them to delay the launch due to a big redesign - I'm happy with what they propose, and I'm hopeful they will find reasonable compromises to some of the concerns raised here that I can live with at an affordable price. If the towing limit is 5k, I can live with that. I hope it's closer to 7k for the Terra, which was the BEV Traveler max tow they proposed anyway.

I agree with all of this. however, sometimes users are just going to have to be responsible. Not starting with a dead battery would be a must. Most folks would not take off with an empty tank. They are buying an electric powered vehicle. The generator could be of optional sizes but as an example a 16k westinghouse generator is 300 lbs. It is big yes but that is because of its design. With the proper accessories it could be made to fit in the frunk area. Thus on long trips loosing the frunk for an extra 200 miles range makes sense. Most folks need a lift to take off the top of a jeep or old blazer yet there are a lot of options for them. When did a frunk become so necessary? I do not know and I never use mine really. Just not a thing. Full EV? yep get a frunk. Need extra range. Use frunk for that. I just do not see where more than 500 miles without a stop is so important. That is a lot of sit time, bad for body and mind.

 

[mcm4ss]

I agree with all of this. however, sometimes users are just going to have to be responsible. Not starting with a dead battery would be a must. Most folks would not take off with an empty tank. They are buying an electric powered vehicle. The generator could be of optional sizes but as an example a 16k westinghouse generator is 300 lbs. It is big yes but that is because of its design. With the proper accessories it could be made to fit in the frunk area. Thus on long trips loosing the frunk for an extra 200 miles range makes sense. Most folks need a lift to take off the top of a jeep or old blazer yet there are a lot of options for them. When did a frunk become so necessary? I do not know and I never use mine really. Just not a thing. Full EV? yep get a frunk. Need extra range. Use frunk for that. I just do not see where more than 500 miles without a stop is so important. That is a lot of sit time, bad for body and mind.

FYI, just thought I should mention this is what I do with my CT. Its range is not good. I just haul my generator. It's not ideal, but I stop for lunch when hunting, I just plug it in. I go scouting, I plug it in. I am camping, I power the camp and charge my truck. I never run out of juice, not even close. Back in town it comes out. No harm at all. Just a little inconvenience for a great driving experience.

 

[colinnwn]

I mostly agree. I would never start with a dead battery, and I would expect that the nav computer would calculate anticipated energy draw and warn me. Apparently the dead battery thing is just a requirement of the SAE test, though it probably needs revisions for EREV/BEV use.

I think you are off on a factor regarding the generator power output. It's going to be closer to 100kw than 16kw so significantly larger and heavier than any residental portable generator to compare. And the frunk area looks small due to the plastic cladding and insulation to use it as a finished storage space. Could they strip that out for EREV and have mounting hard points without a huge revision - perhaps. But who knows if that would require a whole other crash test analysis and again even with optimization I bet that combo would be over 500 lbs and hard to drop in without potentially damage if you don't have an overhead crane, so not a very customer friendly design.

 

[Roger 123]

So here’s who Scout is marketing to:

EV only people don’t want it as better battery and charging speed will be out and they’ll be buying a dinosaur.

EREV people don’t want it cause it will add weight, complexity, and reduce towing.

Just add a “portable” 300 pound generator that I store at home and will load in and wire up as needed.

Get rid of the Frunk, never use it.

OMG, I love my Frunk more than my first born child.

I only drive around in the city and never leave an interstate, charging is a breeze.

I need 600 miles of range as I go 1,000 miles into the wilderness every weekend.

I might need to tow a 9,000 pound trailer at some point in my life.

I couldn’t care less about towing anything.

Maybe if they added a turbo 4 in the frunk and did away with the battery/EREV completely they’d have a winner on their hands. That would appeal to 90 plus percent of the market. Right now they’re looking to please less than 5% of vehicles buyers.

People looking at the body on frame SUV segment know what they want and unfortunately this isn’t it.

 

[colinnwn]

Personally the Scout Terra EREV is exactly what I want if it can tow at least 5k lbs and is affordable.

I also want a Scout for the nostalgia. But I'll definitely consider the coming EREV Lightning and RAM REV if they are significantly more affordable and meet my needs as well or better.